Investment in Real Estate with Pam Hill

investing investments mysmartcousin pamhill real estate realestate realtor smartcousin Jun 03, 2022

Are you looking to invest in real estate, but don't know where to start? Look no further than Pam Hill. As a real estate investor with over 25 properties, Pam knows a thing or two about getting started in the industry - and she's here to share her knowledge with you.

Pam began her real estate investment career ten years ago during the Great Recession. At the time, she was working as an executive at an electric utility company. However, she saw the potential for profit in the real estate market and decided to pursue it as a side hustle.

Since then, Pam has become known as the 'Smart Cousin' to everyone in her family, offering personal finance and real estate advice.


(The following audio has been transcribed)

Hello and welcome back to Kim Talks. I'm your host Kim Hayden and I am super excited to be here talking about all things Real Estate with a gal that has an incredible story and you know what she is like. She is doing what so many think about. 

So you know, we're going to be sharing stories on how you can create your wealth through investment. And that's not as hard as you think. But before we get started, today's episode is brought to you by! So shop online for a bit of sass and fun. Straighten your crown and shop around at Queen of Resilience. 

So today's guest is Pam Hill. She's the founder and CEO of My Smart Cousin. As a real estate investor, she owns 25 properties and 31 units all purchased for the price of a car. Okay. And in some cases a bicycle anywhere from 2000 $535,000. This is crazy. Pam began her real estate investment career ten years ago during the Great Recession as a side hustle while working as an executive at the electric utility company. Since then, Pam has become the smart cousin to everyone in her family and her personal finance and real estate advice, as well as real estate investment coach teaching others how to buy their first or 101st property for the price of a car. Pam is a Dartmouth and Harvard grad. Holy crow. We are in good company today, folks. Pam coaches her clients in English, Spanish, Mandarin, Chinese when required. And as a graduate of the John Hopkins Chinese Studies program in Naging Naging, I think I said that, right? China. I obviously don't speak Mandarin or Chinese. So do you know what? I am absolutely honored and blown away. And I believe the information we're going to get today will be Mind-Blowing. And Pam, you know what? As a real estate agent of 22 years, we had investments, we liquidated investments, and we're looking at stock back up. And I think that you are going to be my favorite cousin. Love it.


Thank you so, so much. You are fantastic Kim. And I know that this is going to be such a great conversation for you and I just as you say, it really isn't as hard. You yourself know this. You already know from the inside looking out. It's not as hard as folks think.


Absolutely. Okay. So, Pam, we're going to dove into the nitty gritty because obviously if you're this smart, you must have been born wealthy and in a privileged neighborhood and and you know, everything's been given to you and you just wanted to go out and see how cheap you could buy stuff. Right. So I'm sure that's the story. Here, right? No, not at all. Sorry. I was a little kid.


From the silver spoon.


At all. Well, I'm going down this journey because I want to know.


I grew up probably like most folks with a working class, but the hard working set of parents and I got a chance to see how important real estate was from a young age because it's the thing that my parents aspired to, to own their very own home. And as I got older, I watched some of the neighbors actually with some regret. I watched how the children didn't always hold on to the real estate as parents moved on. And that seed was planted early on of how important it is to make sure that we not just acquire real estate. Probably this is something you teach as well. How important it is to have the mindset where you can continue to hold on to that wealth and build that wealth and how I got started with my smart cousin is that I became through watching what happened in my neighborhood, I became that cousin that would always reach out to family as them. So remember that for one key investment you told me you were going to make last year at the family reunion. How's that coming? Or I remember that you said you want to move out of your apartment and begin to buy something. How can I help you? What can we do? So I really take it to heart with both family, with friends, and clearly with my clients.


Okay. So this was you self-taught then, like. Yes. You didn't have your parents. So if you don't mind me asking. What was your childhood home like? What was the finances within your house? 


So I call it loving, but peanut butter and jelly jars were we're drinking vessels, right. So you know, certainly no bone China type thing as part of our normal day today. So a family where my mom worked for the airlines as an agent on the phone and my dad was a taxi driver and they just passed it with pride as I continued to move up academically. But they certainly didn't have dinner time conversations steeped in Wall Street and financials. And when I got to college, when I got to Dartmouth, which is in New Hampshire, I was blown away by what normal looked like for a lot of my classmates, which was private school. I'm a public school kid. Which was wealthy. I washed dishes my freshman year as part of my work study program. So I got a chance to sort of peek behind the curtain and see what things look like. And I think you can't ignore the fact either that Dartmouth certainly reaches out to develop its minorities. But the year I was there, our freshman class had about 1060 or so kids that were admitted and attended. And of that about 57 were black. So that was new for me to be in such a dramatic minority. And all of that really motivated me to make sure that if I had this privilege position as someone who both had higher education and learned how to really navigate, let's face it, navigate in a world that was that was heavily privileged, that it was my obligation to also bring the community with me teach them and others who are not part of my direct clan, if you will, through the family. But, more broadly, and I do that not just with clients, these conversations, but even with my tenants talking with them about how they can move from renting to owning and investigating programs that exist for first time owners. So they can do that and give that to their kids Amazingly.


Amazing. So Dartmouth, I mean, like, everybody knows that name. Like, that's very like these are very prestigious schools. That you are aligned with and not coming from. Your parents were university educated and you've driven this all on your own. Before we dove into what you do now. One of the things I'd like to ask is what are you reading or filling yourself with in order to have that drive as a young woman to get to Harvard, I mean, that's that's crazy. Amazing. It really is. So how were you fulfilling that drive?

Yes, yes, yes. So I always have to start off with the thankfulness to my parents. Right. Because absolutely things can certainly go down a different path. Even if they themselves aren't COLLEGE-EDUCATED, if they don't have that drive and vision. And it's funny, my mom attended one year or two years of college before I was born, but then she got motivated. And we both graduated from Harvard and her from a city university the same year. So that was awesome. But as far as how I motivated myself and what I filled myself with, I'd say I always had the entrepreneurial bug from when I was young. And again, I tend to be very humble as well as believing that everyone has these same gifts. So I don't think I would have been unique as a child in selling flower seeds. And then as I got older at school time, my classmates and I could buy candy and sell candy and, and so on straight through college and out of college. So I always look for opportune cities to be an investor and not just someone who works. I can remember two books from when I was very young, The Millionaire Next Door. And of course, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which most everyone knows. And when reading these books, in your twenties or thirties, it's monumental. And so I made up my mind then and there that I would be that millionaire next door. And I certainly would follow the principles and rich dad, poor dad to build up real estate.


Amazing. Amazing. So that perfect segue way into what you do. So share with us, we alluded to the fact that you're buying properties for the price of a good mountain bike. I mean, I know people who have spent $2,500 on a mountain bike, so share with us my smart cousin how you got started, which is obviously very organic, but you also had to put a business practice around it. Or newer when you built something from the ground. It's not easy. So share with me that you know what you do.


Absolutely. So how I got started in real estate as an investor as opposed to as a home buyer was about ten years ago when my husband we were dating at the time, but when he was looking for his first house here in the U.S. and we lived he lived in Delaware, one part of Delaware, I lived in another. And so I went with him to look at houses, just kind of tagging along for fun. And we were blown away by how cheap houses were. I would have never, ever guessed that a house could be bought for less than six figures. So we saw houses not just five figures like 90,000, but straight on down to 20,000. And once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. So there were homes in probably the kind of neighborhoods I grew up in working class neighborhoods, majority black, but also majority hardworking folks. And these homes were $25,000 and, you know, just good solid family houses. And there were many people who were renting in these neighborhoods, but some were owning. So I decided then that I was going to start to buy these kinds of homes and control. At least two of the things that you can control for a tenant because there's really three things I tell my tenants that they should look for and consider. One is the neighborhood, too, is the house. Three is the landlords. So I can certainly control being a great landlord and giving them a great house. I can't always control the neighborhood, but I work even there to be a partner by reaching out to the chief of police, for instance, if things are a little loud, shall we say, on the block, and that's not a great thing for the tenant or if they have a car that's not theirs that's been broken down, then parked in front of their house. I called the city and asked them to move it. So I look to treat the neighborhood like I live there because I don't want to be afraid when I'm there, and I don't want them to be afraid when they are there. So that's how I started tagging along, seeing my husband, and then looking at house after house after house. Some of them I bought through auctions and was able to buy several at once. For instance, about three years ago I bought four houses each for $7,000 in a county auction. Two were great. Two were duds. And so I learned from that as well. The two that were great, I had them rented out in a matter of months. So this is why I focus on houses that are that price of a car because you really can't lose in my view. You can't lose for two reasons. One, because you have an annuity, an annuity just meaning something that's going to pay you month after month after month, kind of like a bond. And what will pay you month after month is a house that you fix up and rent out. You are never going to be without a family who needs it. So that's one way you can't lose. The second way you can't lose is by buying it so low, you're really not going to cry into your glass of wine. If the house goes from $7,000 to, gee, it's only worth 5000. Oh, poor Pam. No. And moreover, the likelihood of it doing that is minuscule. Minuscule like you like. Exactly. The likelihood of it going instead to 30. Or really, for me, there are lottery tickets. You never know if one of these neighborhoods is going to become your next million dollar neighborhood as has happened. And I was going to say parts of Brooklyn, but probably the entirety of Brooklyn in New York City. And a number of other areas.


Gentrification is huge. And there are markers that you can look for like location and accessibility schools that if a city is underneath I know that like Tennessee, Tennessee is crazy right now and like it is an awesome, awesome market to invest in. It also has and what's interesting is if you do some Google searches, you can easily find out who's pulling out small business licenses. So Tennessee has one of the highest levels of small business license requests out of any other state. So if people are starting businesses that means that they're working actively to improve or control their lives. They're yes, they're personal. So obviously having real estate in that space, they go up, real estate goes up right now, click.




Do you only invest in where you live or do you invest in other areas?


I invest at this point principally where I live. So when I say principally meaning within about a 50 mile radius and so because of Delaware and Pennsylvania and New Jersey, the part that I live in, in Pennsylvania being so close, there are almost not like states almost like cities because of them being only a few miles away from one another where I live. So that makes it very easy. But I would say that this model of buying a house for the price of a car you mentioned Tennessee. So Tennessee would be, gosh, probably about 400 miles away from me. So that is not at all easy to get to. But you can work with a perfectly capable property manager, and I would absolutely encourage folks and have helped folks to do that. And that way they can get involved in these markets. I think about Atlanta, which is a city in Georgia that I used to live in, and I can remember thinking this was before I was investing, but thinking, gee, this place is going to get big one day. But that's where and I'm sure this is how you coach your folks it's not enough to just think it. You must do it.




And you then watch in hindsight. Well, yeah, I sure did know that was going to blow up. And now a lot of Atlanta is back to that six figures that I talk about. More than 100, 200, 300. You really can't believe it. And these selfsame homes were in the twenties when I was their twenties and thirties So absolutely, for folks who are seeing Tennessee, as you give that as an example and there are many other every day I look on Zillow, there are hundreds of houses every single day that are listed for the price of a car. You don't have to live near these places. You can decide to develop a strategy where maybe you buy three, four, five. So now you're scaling and you use a property manager and you hire a handyman crew, and then they become your eyes on the ground and your workers on the ground.


Absolutely. Wichita, Kansas is where I'm from originally, and in the last six months, I've seen prices go up 30% on average. However, if you go just literally 40 minutes outside of the city center, they have an experience that and if you go an hour and 30 minutes outside of city center, you can still get houses for that $25,000 mark. And what's really crazy is that adjacent to these flyover states, a lot of these flyover cities adjacent to the cities will be old farms that no longer anybody's farming. And that's land. That's land. And there's a huge opportunity. I know that Warren Buffett is doubling down into modular mobile, all of that because affordable housing right. So there's so many opportunities out there. So let's say hypothetically, let's say as a single mom, let's create a scenario, okay? Single moms that don't get child support because we know how some lot of these women don't get any support. Right. She's hustlin, hard working two, three jobs and getting $10,000 right off the bat. For an investment is not an option. She's got maybe five. Do you know of any kind of grants or programs, loans, companies out there that if she had $5,000, that she could get a matching investment or anything along those lines?

Yes. So if that enterprising women were my client, the first thing I would do, I would naturally know where it is that she lives so that we could begin to investigate first time homebuyer funding, which is not matched based. It's just here you go. So first time, let's say, for instance, she lived right here in Pennsylvania where I am. And maybe she lived in Philly. I'm not in Philly, but I'm not far from there. Let's say she lives in a large city like Philadelphia. So we would then go online and we would find first time home buyer funding for people who are moving to Philadelphia. And I would ask her is have you ever owned a home before in Philly? And if she says no, great, you're going to qualify. If she says, you know what, yes, I owned one, but not in Philly. I owned one in another part of Pennsylvania or elsewhere. I'd say, you know what? As far as Philly is concerned, you're new to them, so you're probably going to qualify. So that's the first thing we do. Then we look to see what it takes to get that money. Often it's a class, some kind of budgeting class. So I would have her go through that. And once she passes that, which is not terribly difficult, that's going to be about four or $5,000 that's in her pocket. That can be used towards down payment and closing costs. So that's the first thing. Second thing I would do if she is receiving any kind of assistance, let's say she's receiving a housing choice voucher, which is a Section eight kind of voucher. I would work with her with her housing choice representative, let's call it that. The person who is her case manager to see how she can qualify to instead receive mortgage assistance rather than renters assistance because housing choice pardon me some housing authorities provide that. So that's the second thing. We beat down the door for that. And then the third thing is I would have her make sure that she's not with it, I would say wedded to a location. So if she's really looking at Philly, let's explore why. You know what? Maybe they don't need to live in Philly. Maybe we move 200 miles to the West or not even that far, 100 miles to the west in some cities that, to your point, are a little more rural. You can qualify for a zero money down loan through the USDA if your economic circumstances are quite harsh and if they're not as harsh as that, then USDA and others have other programs. So that's the one, two, three punch that I would do for her.


Amazing. Amazing. So before we jump into your why. Right. I want to talk about your wife developing this business to help others because you've been able to help yourself, but now you're stepping in. It's a whole nother thing when we help ourselves, but then it's a whole nother thing where we actually put the energy and effort into developing infrastructure to be able to service others. So before we jump in there, I'm going to ask everybody if you're enjoying this conversation. Please, please, please, like subscribe, comment and share. Like subscribe, comment and share. You can find Kim talks on iTunes. You know, do your comments there. You can go to my Facebook, you can go to Pam's Facebook, just engage. That's what we're really looking for. It's really easy to be passive on this but to do a good podcast and to have great people, we need you, the audience, to help us know that we're doing the right thing. Give us some feedback. Awesome. So panelists, jump into, okay, you're making your money on your house is great. No problem. You've got your education. You can do this. You don't even need I'm guessing you're making enough. Yes. Income. You don't need the hassle of trying to build a coaching program. Yes. Let everybody know the platforms are somewhat intuitive. So if we have I don't know which platform you're using, it's like a job. I'd think if they give me all these different platforms out there, they are somewhat intuitive. However, it is still time consuming. Yes. You know, you could be on a beach plan. You could be on a beach having a margarita and join the revenue from your investments. Why are you coaching? Why are you doing this?


I do this for a couple of reasons. One is because I feel I am called. I am obligated. I am required. I love to help others. The tent is big enough for us all. There's more than enough cake for everyone. And it's no fun to just have the cake all to yourself. And it's just something that I think has always been within me, this notion of being a light in this world. So that's one reason I do it, because I feel I must a second reason that I do it is because I know that most people want to own their own home and just don't know how or just even if they're not thinking about the house, they want to be the captain a little bit more of their life than they are. They don't want to break out into a hot sweat when they open up the latest round of bills that have arrived. So I want to help them do that, that's really it, fundamentally I love it and I would do it kind of no matter what. I see this as the sort of thing I would do straight till my last breath.


Amazing. And I said, Okay, you say that. So I'm going to tell you that you don't have to disclose your age. I'll share. I'm 53 and a lot of people I know are going, I want to retire and all this other stuff in a good way. I have my, I'm doing this. And then when I turn 60, this is what I'm going to do. And then when I'm 70 I can maybe look at slowing down. Are you one of those types of people also where, you know, retirement is just like, what is retirement?


What is retirement? Yes. I am. I'm exactly that kind of person. Yeah. When I hit retirement years, for sure, I will still be doing this because I enjoy it. I really do. It gives me satisfaction. And I also believe it is a help to the world and how I do this in an even broader way. Back to me mentioning my tenants is that I am starting to work now with some non-profits on tenant rights advocacy so that tenants are also aware of their rights and so that I can show other landlords it is possible to both do well and do good. So yeah, that's, that's just a part of the structure.


In the States. I understand that there is a program that you can set up where people when people pay their rent on time, it can actually go towards rebuilding their credit yes. Yes.




Share with me from a landlord's perspective how that can be a benefit or a payback or like I just know what that program is.


Sure. Absolutely. So what a landlord can do is contact the credit bureaus. So there are three principally three credit bureaus in the U.S. I guess probably the most well-known one might be Experian, a TransUnion tends to also be another well-known one to which a landlord can contact any of these credit bureaus. And report that their tenant is making payments on time. They can do that each month or they can do it at the end of, let's say, a lease period. And that's a way for and they can also submit what they would do specifically with that is they would provide how much the rent was, whether the payment was made on time and any other issues or positives associated with that. And then the credit bureau would incorporate that into the tenant's record that the tenant's credit record, and that would then improve their credit score. So a credit score is in the U.S. based on FICO. So that could increase their FICO score by several points.


Amazing. Amazing. As soon as I heard that, I thought, what an amazing thing for a landlord to be able to do to help, because the number one cause of financial turbulence or bankruptcy in the United States is medical. And people don't have control over that. And, you know, I almost see that you could be a landlord almost like truly being a service to help people get on their feet.






And I think it helps the landlord as well. I think even the words that we use, landlord tenant, you know, those are the words. But ultimately, we are in a customer service business. And so in the same way that if it was, I don't know, a university or a restaurant and they would think how they can go above and beyond for their customer so that that customer returns or refers others, I think that's likewise how a landlord should approach it. So if they're wondering, well, why should I take time out of my day to do this? And isn't this just going to make the tenant ultimately leave me? I like them when they're vulnerable. The fact is that the tenant is going to appreciate you probably staying longer and not be immediately on the phone if there's if you said you'd come today and instead you end up coming, you know, two days later and they'll probably refer you. So in my case, I have a number of tenants where I am the landlord to their family. So they referred to it started with one person and then they referred to their daughter, then they referred to their son, then they referred to sister and so each time I have an opening, that's what I automatically go to.


Amazing, amazing. You know, we talk a lot about resiliency with, you know, here on Cape Talks, we have a show that's all strictly resilience. And then we, we, you know, we're our parent company is resilient. New media. And so I always want to find a moment of resilience anywhere. Your childhood, young, young adulthood, it could even have been last week. But a moment that you can identify you can pinpoint where without that muscle of resilience, you would not be sitting in this chair talking to me.


Absolutely. Absolutely. So many moments of resilience, I'd say, you know, I can think about when I was eight years old, my mom was instrumental in having me bust out of the neighborhood to a better school district. So for the parents who are out there where they do that or some other form of advocacy for their child, for them to remind their child, this is a resilient moment for you. And it was a resilient moment for me because I was leaving all my school friends go to a different school district, and yet I persevered and knew that there was something better ahead of now fast forwarding into adulthood, resilience would be as I moved from one job to another, each time wondering what I'd be able to take on this new role, especially if I had zero experience in it or felt I didn't have in some way I wasn't enough The resilience to persevere and continue on and to believe that that you have what it takes, even if you are doubting yourself in that moment.


Absolutely. Absolutely. And actually, you just touched on something that is rampant in women entrepreneurs: is that imposter syndrome? Am I really supposed to be doing this? You know, am I really qualified for this? And I think that, you know, identifying that that's a component of resilience is really key. That that, you know, it's it's you can do it We talk a lot in our round. Some women entrepreneurs, the United States actually account for less than 3% of traditional bank loans when starting their business. And if you're a woman of visible minority it's less than 1%. And that is part of my personal quest to get more women on the stage and get more women asking for that money because you are worth it. And so that you know, and having it and doing the small steps to increase your portfolio, finding these houses and these opportunities, becoming the landlord, putting that underneath you, saying I have a reliable, you know, $500 a month revenue coming in every month off of this property. These are ways to help women be able to even put together a financial statement when they go in for a bank loan.



Absolutely. You know, just because you're purchasing property, this does not mean you are out just washing the windows in and repairing. No, no, it is one bucket. So.


That's right.


It's one bucket. And then, Pam, you've got your coaching as another bucket. Your third bucket because I know creative women always have three things on the go by, am I right?


Absolutely not the third bucket. I probably have like ten, but the third bucket is now branching into agriculture as well as commercial businesses. So for me, a house has four walls and a roof, and even if it's my own house. So my husband and I are now the proud owners of a small farm and it has a house on it, but it also is in a commercially zoned area. And so I specifically picked something that would make money that would not just sort of be a place to put up our feet. So that third thing that I have is self storage as well as small agriculture here. And again, I encourage folks who you mentioned flyover country, you can buy a plot of land, even a small piece for probably a thousand bucks in some of these places. And USDA is quite generous with helping you to start a very small call it, and thousand square foot farm. So that's the sort of thing I'm doing is starting to explore other areas.


Oh, gosh, you know what? It's going to be so exciting to learn and follow you. And I would love to see you actually speaking not only at real estate conferences, but at women entrepreneurial conferences. I think that some of you have a wealth of knowledge. So around this time I'm always asking, what is a book? And now you mentioned two books earlier and you also have an e-book online. What's the name of your e-book, Pam?


The name of my book is How to Buy a House for the Price of a Car.


Yeah, that's it. Says it all.


That's right. The specifics for how to do that.


Oh, that's awesome. So and that's on Amazon.


That is on your website. That's on my website. So if you go to my smart cousin dot com.


Awesome. Awesome. So from there, you mentioned two other books. Is there any other book like today that you're, you're enjoying as a so we talked a lot with women over 40 who are now building their wealth so women between and actually just so the ladies know up there there's a lot of studies going on around women between the ages of 50 and 60 and that these are actually some of our most viable wealth building years so if you're think this is not awesome it's just awesome the landscape is changing so if you've hit your fifties you're seeing you're going really you know this is it no it's not. There's so much more to life. What's a book that as a woman over 40 that you say this is really a good book or speaks to me.


Yes. So a book that I go back to is a classic called The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell, who I believe is a Canadian, a fellow Canadian of yours. So this book would have been written probably about 20 years ago. But why it speaks to me even as a woman and as a woman of color is that it talks about those dynamics that aren't always clear to you in the month, but show you when you're about to reach a tipping point. So I think about it in terms of escape velocity. Anyone who has started a business is always trying to figure out how to move from a thousand? One of many thousands advanced to the one just getting up to slightly above. And so the tipping point has an awful lot of lessons on how this can be done. So this is something I refer to again and again.


Amazing. Amazing. So, yes, that's a great recommendation. Okay. We're going to close out today. And I you know, honestly, I've gone a little bit longer today. I appreciate those of you.


Who this has been so fine.


It has been amazing. And I would love to invite you back. And actually what we would do. I would love to actually look at different states and actually review some of the opportunities and how those could be leveraged. I just think you're a wealth of knowledge. I love that. I love that. Awesome. Awesome. But what we're going to do is we're going to close this out, a quote, something that has resonated with you for your life. That is your North Star.


Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm a big fan of two people, Oprah Winfrey as well as Nelson Mandela. So one of the things that Oprah Winfrey has said is that it always looks impossible until it's done. And that so speaks to me because. Yes, absolutely. That's when it seems it tells me that you can't give up too soon because success is always right around the corner. And Nelson Mandela, he is quoted a proverb that you can go fast if you go alone, but you go much slower there if you go together. Exactly.


I love that. That's one of my favorite proverbs. Absolutely. That is the collaboration piece. And that's where a lot of incredible leaders like yourself. Pam, can if you collaborate. It's really fascinating because I interviewed a girl, Olympic gold medalist, and a female wrestler for the Rio Olympics here in Calgary. She's actually gone. Wow. And she said the coach I went to the Olympics with was not the coach I started wrestling with, but I have never accelerated without a coach. And when she was at the Olympics, her coach was smaller. Then she put him on her shoulders, I swear, with the Canadian flag on her shoulders, holding the little stuff flush but a plushy thing that they had at the Rio Olympics and ran lapped the Austrian, lumbered with her coach on her shoulders. So all I'm going to say, ladies, gentlemen, anybody who's listening, coach up, if you want to accelerate up, add, do you want to go fast? Go alone. But as we know in the story of the hair and the tortoise, fast is not always the best. But if you want to go far, go together. So again, Pam, I appreciate you. Can you share with us where we can find you? Your social media is your emails, share everything because I am absolutely certain people will want to reach out.


Thank you so, so much and I really enjoyed this. This was just so engaging. It's always fantastic. When I get to talk to fellow motivated female entrepreneurs. So my website is because I am your smart cousin so and then you can follow me on Instagram and on Twitter @mysmartcousin - that's my handle.


That is amazing. Thank you, Pam. And I want to thank everybody who's gifted us with their time because I know how important your time is and we know it's nonrenewable. So make the most of your time every day. Next time you're feeling your resiliency is lagging a little or you just need that booster, that community because you want to go far. You know, be sure to listen and lean into our resilient community. You can join this resilient gift dot com and get your free membership. This gives you our monthly magazines that will showcase different podcasts, different guests, different women of inspiration, insight and business. And, you know, really just lean into our community. But if you have a story of resilience or really great business and you're ready to get that story out there, DM Me at Resilience Series on Instagram and I would love to hear what you have to say. So we are celebrating and showcasing female founders, coaches, entrepreneurs, authors, speakers, and those who aspire to be any and all of the above. Until next time. I'm Kim Hayden, your host here Kim talks I'll thanks for listening And until next time. Be good to yourself.

Pam Hill, founder and CEO of My Smart Cousin, is a real estate investor who owns 25 properties and 31 units, all purchased for the price of a car, and in some cases, a bicycle, at $2,500 to $35,000.  Pam began her real estate investment career ten years ago during the Great Recession, as a side hustle while working as an executive at an electric utility company.  Since then Pam has become the ‘Smart Cousin’ to everyone in her family with personal finance and real estate advice, as well as a real estate investment coach, teaching others how to buy their first or 101st property for the price of a car.  Pam a Dartmouth and Harvard grad, coaches her clients in English, Spanish, and Mandarin, Chinese when required, as a graduate of Johns Hopkins’ Chinese studies program in Nanjing, China.

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